Daily Kos

If you're going to exaggerate about MLK...

by Kagro X

Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 03:42:29 PM PDT

If you're a Republican presidential candidate and you've made up your mind to exaggerate something about the nature of your relationship with Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., you're gonna want to do it the Mitt Romney way:

Mitt Romney went a step further in a 1978 interview with the Boston Herald. Talking about the Mormon Church and racial discrimination, he said: "My father and I marched with Martin Luther King Jr. through the streets of Detroit."

Of course, neither Romney nor his father marched with King in Detroit. But the point is that a modern politician knows that if you're gonna lie about MLK, you lie about how much you liked and admired him.

On the other hand, if you're a Stone Age Republican like John McCain, this doesn't occur to you. Instead, you exaggerate by minimizing your recognition of King's impact on and importance to modern American society:

Reporter: What didn't you know when you voted initially against it that you later knew when you changed your mind?

McCain: I had not really been involved in the issue. I just had not had a lot of experience with the issue. That's all.

Or else you pretend you've only kinda-sorta heard of him:

"They never gave us any meaningful news," McCain said. "They told us the day that Martin Luther King was shot, they told us the day that Bobby Kennedy was shot, but they never bothered to tell us about the moon shot. So it was certainly selected news."

It's interesting, though, isn't it? McCain says the assassinations of King and Kennedy weren't really "meaningful," to a P.O.W. And I can certainly understand how your one's own seemingly hopeless captivity could do that to you. But yet McCain would have us believe that he whiled away the hours tapping away excitedly in code to his fellow prisoners about the virtues of Ronald Reagan:

Mindful of many conservatives' nostalgia for Ronald Reagan -- and opposition to himself -- Sen. McCain used his victory speech to associate himself with the late president. Alluding to his days as a Vietnam prisoner of war, he said, "I stand for the principles and policies that first attracted me to the Republican Party when I heard, in whispered conversations and tap codes, about the then governor of California, who stood by me and my comrades....And I am as proud to be a Reagan conservative today, as I was then."

Really.

Never really "got" MLK, but engaged in secret tap code rap sessions about Ronald Reagan.

.... . -.-- / -- -.-. -.-. .- .. -. --..-- / .. ..-. / .. / . ...- . .-. / --. . - / --- ..- - / --- ..-. / .... . .-. . --..-- / .. .----. -- / --. --- .. -. --. / - --- / -- .- .-. .-. -.-- / -- -.-- / --. .. .-. .-.. .-.-.-

.-- . .-.. .-.. --..-- / .. ..-. / .. / . ...- . .-. / --. . - / --- ..- - / --- ..-. / .... . .-. . --..-- / .. .----. -- / --. --- .. -. --. / - --- / .-.. --- .-- . .-. / - .- -..- . ... / --- -. / .... .- .-. -.. / .-- --- .-. -.- .. -. --. / .- -- . .-. .. -.-. .- -. ... --..-- / .--- ..- ... - / .-.. .. -.- . / .-. --- -. .- .-.. -.. / .-. . .- --. .- -. .-.-.-

..- .... --..-- / --- -.- .-.-.-

Mmm-hmm.

  • ::

Tags: John McCain, Mitt Romney, Martin Luther King (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 128 comments

  •  Heard Rush Limbaugh's jackass replacement.... (7+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    mattman, deepfish, filmgeek83, dolphin777, rainmanjr, gchaucer2, politicalceci

    today stating that conservatives have done more to preserve Dr. King's legacy that these "lip service liberals".  .

    The terrorist or the dreamer: the savage or the brave? It depends who's vote you're trying to catch, or who's face you're trying to save

    by KevinBarry16 on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 03:46:42 PM PDT

  •  thanks for the link to the translator. (8+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    deepfish, drchelo, dolphin777, gchaucer2, madgranny, lineatus, politicalceci, Dragon5616

    My boy scout days are long behind me, and I wasn't very good at it anyway.

    An agnostic not because I don't know if there's a God, but because I don't care.

    by filmgeek83 on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 03:47:04 PM PDT

  •  --- .... / -.. . .- .-. (9+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Meteor Blades, mikeb42, rhubarb, filmgeek83, Eikyu Saha, gchaucer2, OHeyeO, Cameron Fredman, politicalceci

    .--. --- --- .-. / --- .-.. -.. / -.-. --- -.. --. . .-. .-.-.-

    Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

    by bumblebums on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 03:48:23 PM PDT

  •  John McCain's Bio Waste (5+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Meteor Blades, Dallasdoc, deepfish, Brooke In Seattle, brein

    All this week, Republican presidential nominee John McCain is highlighting his biography during a "Service to America" tour designed to reintroduce himself to voters. Unfortunately, as today's MLK commemoration showed, with each new stop McCain only raises disturbing new questions about his past.

    For the details, see:
    "John McCain's Bio Waste."

    by Avenging Angel on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 03:48:31 PM PDT

  •  King was against the Vietnam war (11+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Meteor Blades, bumblebums, hhex65, Dallasdoc, chumley, deepfish, Luetta, Caoilainn, R Rhino from CT4, politicalceci, DoubleDose

    That's why McCain "had not really been involved in the issue". In other words, he still hates his guts, and only because the Superbowl wouldn't have been held in Arizona unless it recognized MLK day, did McCain realize that that wasn't a politically convenient standpoint to hold.

    Do you really think that McCain didn't have a fit that someone he must see as a backstabber, like all those DFHs, has a public holiday? See further his comments about how he was "otherwise engaged" at the time of Woodstock. This is a 40 year grudge.

    Vote for McCain to continue the fight against al-Qaeda, vote for Obama to finish it. </war>

    by Calouste on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 03:48:37 PM PDT

    •  And it was when King started speaking ... (13+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      a gilas girl, mecki, its simple IF you ignore the complexity, willyr, bumblebums, deepfish, Luetta, Caoilainn, Leo in NJ, politicalceci, paintitblue, Munchkn, DoubleDose

      ...out against the war that a lot of people who had, at least publicly, spoken favorably of King started getting upset. How dare this man talk about something outside his bailiwick? I mean, sure, OK, civil rights, but something really important, like a war? Leave that to real Americans, eh?

      I am an anti-imperialist. I am opposed to having the eagle put its talons on any other land. -- Mark Twain

      by Meteor Blades on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 03:54:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I don't think we have to go so far as (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      willyr, Leo in NJ

      "McCain still hates his guts"....  I can still remember people who did quite literally hate MLK's guts, as I can remember quite clearly hearing white folks say things like "I'm glad the no good n*****'s dead" upon hearing the news that he had been shot.  There were plenty of people who opposed MLK, what he stood for, and the connections he drew between racism, poverty and militarism without hating him, especially at that time.  The thing about John McCain is that he's never really left that time, his politics really are just a reflection of that period: he's an old school hawk and not much else.  Issues of justice, racial politics, even the economy are secondary to the militarized view of empire politics that comprise McCain's worldview.

      Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

      by a gilas girl on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 03:57:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Okay seriously (5+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    d to the f, chumley, deepfish, Caoilainn, OHeyeO

    Those tap codes are the funniest thing I've seen on this site in a long time.

    Unless I'm off my mark in translation, it says something like "trickle down, trickle down, my friend."

    Am I wrong?

    by Bailey on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 03:49:24 PM PDT

  •  McPhoney Gets It NOW (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    deepfish, OHeyeO, politicalceci

    as he slithers and panders, hoping people will forget his opposition.

    Nobody is buying what he's selling.  And didn't the old bastard get testy when they didn't?

    Putid old faker.

    You can't always tell the truth because you don't always know the truth - but you can ALWAYS be honest.

    by mattman on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 03:49:38 PM PDT

    •  McShame's karma came back and bit him tonight (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      mattman

      His interview with Brian Williams on NBC Nightly News was drowned out by the speakers. Just by his facial expressions alone, you could tell he wasn't genuine about being there to honor MLK.

      Call it the "TOO LATE" Talk Express today!!

      There has never been a protracted war from which a country has benefited. The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. - Sun Tzu

      by OHeyeO on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 04:42:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  In respect, Kagro... (7+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    a gilas girl, rhubarb, phenry, LNK, SherriG, fxq, lineatus

    Or else you pretend you've only kinda-sorta heard of him:

    "They never gave us any meaningful news," McCain said. "They told us the day that Martin Luther King was shot, they told us the day that Bobby Kennedy was shot, but they never bothered to tell us about the moon shot. So it was certainly selected news."

    It's interesting, though, isn't it? McCain says the assassinations of King and Kennedy weren't really "meaningful," to a P.O.W.

    ...I think you and Markos are giving McCain a bum rap on this one.   And I mean, only on this quote alone, which insinuates that he thought the assasinations of King and Kennedy weren't meaningful.    Check this out:

    Could you keep up with what was going on in the world? He was asked.

    "They never gave us any meaningful news," McCain said. "They told us the day that Martin Luther King was shot, they told us the day that Bobby Kennedy was shot, but they never bothered to tell us about the moon shot. So it was certainly selected news."

    Surely the John McCain of 2008 would not hold that the assassinations of King and Kennedy were not "meaningful."

    (UDATE: McCain's top aide Mark Salter says McCain didn't mean "meaningful" in that interview, arguing that what McCain was trying to say was that the Vietnamese always gave the prisoners bad news from home, not good news.)

    In fact earlier this year, McCain told a different version of the story of how he heard of King's assassination.

    "I was in prison when they announced over the loudspeaker in my cell," McCain told reporters in Jacksonville, Fla. "I was living by myself, that Dr. Martin Luther King had been assassinated. They always told us the very bad news, but somehow avoided telling us minor events such as landing a man on the moon. I didn't find that out until a couple years after the event itself. I didn't know Dr. King. I was a member of the military. Obviously I admire him as all Americans do. But I did have the great honor of getting to know Congressman John Lewis. In fact, I've taken my children to meet him, because I think John Lewis epitomizes the struggle that continues to this day to achieve full equality in America. Congressman John Lewis is a role model to me in many respects."

    I think McCain is a louse, but I'm willing to spot him this one -- I understand how he could have meant "they never gave us any big news except for occasional BAD news from the U.S.A."

    Let's not condemn him for speaking awkwardly, especially as it concerns his imprisonment in horrible conditions for YEARS.    I think he's a rat of a politician, but he suffered horribly as a POW.

    JOHN McCAIN = George W. Bush's 3rd term.

    by chumley on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 03:50:20 PM PDT

    •  I'm sort of in the middle on this ... (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      chumley, middleagedhousewife

      ...McCain has had a lot of years of public life in which to learn not to speak awkwardly about his horrible time as a POW, but I'm sure five  years' of that NEVER goes away or stops affecting you in so many ways. So, I think we should be cautious about our commentary in such matters - damned few of us know what it's like to suffer the way he did.

      That's the only place I cut him slack, however, including, of course, his continuing view that the Vietnam War was a good and glorious and honoerable affair.

      I am an anti-imperialist. I am opposed to having the eagle put its talons on any other land. -- Mark Twain

      by Meteor Blades on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 03:57:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I give him slack for being a POW (6+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Meteor Blades, rhubarb, hhex65, chumley, middleagedhousewife, politicalceci

        Surely a horrifying experience.

        But he can't even talk about what he had for breakfast today without mentioning the Hanoi Hilton.

        He's like Guiliani with his constant refernces to 911.

        Resist much, obey little. ~~Edward Abbey, via Walt Whitman

        by willyr on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 04:05:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I wonder, seriously, (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Meteor Blades, chumley

        if there is really any way to speak publically about having been a POW that isn't awkward, or worse, hyperbolic.  While it is true that one COULD possibly learn something like that, I'm hesitant to hold an inability to be a wordsmith (or an orator) against anyone.  Better, it seems to me to value those who have the ability or have learned the craft rather than deride those who don't.  

        Goodness knows I'm no McCain fan, and would rarely cut him any slack, not even on his position vis-a-vis the Vietnam War (though I can see how he might genuinely believe the dangerous positions he supports).  But I would readily accept that 1)News like the assinations of both King and RFK would be precisely the kind of news his captors would share with him/his fellow captors and 2)Because they had shared it with himhis fellow captors, they might be inclined to "dismiss" it, take it less seriously because of its recognized propaganda value.  

        That said, I can also easily accept that to a war hawk like McCain, the issues King had raised throughout his life were "secondary" or even "less meaningful".  McCain, like Bush, isn't exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer under the best of circumstances.  To expect him to have any understanding, much less vision of how profound an impact/role someone like MLK had on US history and society either at the time or even today, under the best of circumstances is asking more than the poor man can possibly deliver.  But I will add that this lack of recognition of the "meaning" of King's assination isn't comparable to the open hatred I can remember hearing uttered by lots of folks around me, when I learned of King's death as a child.  These are two fundamentally different timbres of reaction, in my experience at least.

        Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

        by a gilas girl on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 04:13:34 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I'm willing to allow ... (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      its simple IF you ignore the complexity, brein, politicalceci, DoubleDose

      ...that he misspoke in using the "meaningful" in a reckless way. Fine. The portion of that statement that I take umbrage with is his reduction of MLK's legacy to "the issue." What issue is he exactly referring to? The fight for civil rights? For equality? Justice?

      These aren't just issues, G-dammit! These are the foundational values of our republic. Not issues to be framed. You shouldn't need a frickin' messaging training on "the issue" to realize that the struggles of numerous communities throughout the middle part of the last century were vital to the preservation of this republic as a free, pluralistic society. Sheesh.

      I think it's very telling that he's reduced his old maneuvering on racial equity down to an "issue."

      A dreamer is one who can only find his way by moonlight, and his punishment is that he sees the dawn before the rest of the world. Oscar Wilde

      by AimlessDriver on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 04:00:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I completely agree. (0+ / 0-)

        I think it's very telling that he's reduced his old maneuvering on racial equity down to an "issue."

        Like I said, I'm talking about the deconstruction of that one statement.

        JOHN McCAIN = George W. Bush's 3rd term.

        by chumley on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 04:46:19 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I respect him for living through POW experience (5+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      darrelplant, chumley, vernonbc, brein, DoubleDose

      But, he was captured in 1967 and MLK was one of the most well-known national figures for at least 5 years prior to that. If he didn't know how important either of the two assasinations would be, that raises a caution flag with me.

      He was released in 1973 and has had 30+ years to get to a more sincere stance on this issue. He hasn't been in some cave or in isolation since then.

      Watch his body language on this and other non-military subjects. I get the feeling he was just going through the motions on this today and doesn't really care. In fact, the only time he gets even halfway excited is when he's talking about military actions. This disturbs me.

      The POW experience shouldn't excuse any of his deliberate actions or flippant attitude on any subject. He wants to be PRESIDENT, not a ribbon-cutting Mayor or County Commissioner.

      There has never been a protracted war from which a country has benefited. The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. - Sun Tzu

      by OHeyeO on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 04:57:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I thought the only Rethug politician (9+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    mattman, phenry, Moody Loner, Dallasdoc, deepfish, SherriG, Eikyu Saha, brein, politicalceci

    to engage in "tap code" was Larry Craig . . .

    Well, the only Rethug politician since Jon Hinson, at least.

    by corvo on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 03:50:42 PM PDT

  •  Too f***in' funny! (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Caoilainn

    by LisainNYC on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 03:50:54 PM PDT

  •  -- -.-. -.-. .- .. -. (5+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Sacramento Dem, ezdidit, Caoilainn, Bindle, politicalceci

    .-. . -- .. -. -.. ... / -- . / --- ..-. / --. .-. .- -. -.. .--. .- / ... .. -- .--. ... --- -. / -.-- . .-.. .-.. .. -. --. / .- - / .- / -.-. .-.. --- ..- -..

    John McCain is NOT a Bush supporter. He may be a liar, a pig, an idiot, a Bush supporter, but he is NOT a porn star.

    by DH from MD on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 03:53:46 PM PDT

  •  I see someone found the (0+ / 0-)

    Virtual Text To Morse Code Converter.

    ", syrup ,..., shit ,..., hotcakes." Meteor Blades
    John McCain

    by JugOPunch on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 03:55:26 PM PDT

  •  The tap codes thing may be the funniest thing (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Dragon5616

    I've read, heard or seen in months. Well done.

    McCain, bleh. The man truly does not get it.

    by Caoilainn on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 03:56:20 PM PDT

  •  My thoughts (0+ / 0-)

    .. / .-- --- ..- .-.. -.. -. .----. - / -... . / ... ..- .-. .--. .-. .. ... . -.. / .. ..-. / .... .. ... / - .-. ..- . / ..-. . . .-.. .. -. --. ... / .- -... --- ..- - / -- .-.. -.- / .-- . .-. . / -- ..- -.-. .... / -- --- .-. . / -. . --. .- - .. ...- . .-.-.-

    Love that "power of the purse!" It looks so nice up there on the mantle (and not the table) next to the "subpoena power."

    by Sacramento Dem on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 03:56:40 PM PDT

  •  . (0+ / 0-)

    -.-- --- ..- / .- .-. . / .- -. / .- ... ... / .... --- .-.. . / -- -.-. -.-. .- .. -.

    I will sell things
    "Running For Progress"

    by Abraham Running For Congress When I Turn 25 on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 03:56:58 PM PDT

  •  NBC Nightly News was unwatchable. (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    phenry, deepfish, middleagedhousewife, brein

    Brian Williams was trying to both report the news and interview John McCain in front of the Lorrain (sp?) Hotel where MLK was shot, as the ceremony honoring MLK was going on.

    There was so much dissonance, I had to change the channel because I couldn't understand ANY of it.

    Thanks, you idiots, for ruining both the news AND the ceremony for me.

    And that's no exaggeration.

    by Brooke In Seattle on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 03:57:44 PM PDT

  •  Reagan and anti-war protests (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Marie, deepfish, DoubleDose

    I was driven out of the UC Berkeley library by tear gas dropped from helicopter.....an experiment by Reagan and Nixon, according to rumor.........

    Reagan was very harsh on anti-war protests in California when he was governor.

    McCain is an apologist for military brass......Third generation....glory to the military at all costs.

    I agree that the diarist is parsing McCain slightly unfairly. Go ahead and hit 'em with the 'pickaninny' remark by his friend.
    http://pandagon.blogsome.com/...

    And on his voting record. Brillian List:
    http://colorofchange.org/...

    Scroll down to "McCain Wrong..."

    Best Diary of the Year? http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/23/03912/3990

    by LNK on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 03:59:55 PM PDT

  •  More Like (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    CJB
    - .... . / -.-. --- .-- -... --- -.-- / .- -.-. - --- .-. ..--..


    You can have your "Under God" back when I get my "Liberty and Justice For All" back.

    by karateexplosions on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 04:01:46 PM PDT

  •  oh, he "gets" it alright (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    rainmanjr

    McCain found a black man to hold his umbrella.
    Good going, John.

    http://billy-duss.blogspot.com/...

    If we cannot elect this man, we don't deserve him.

    by lisastar on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 04:02:56 PM PDT

  •  As I wrote earlier - I was five years old when (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    deepfish, Luetta, middleagedhousewife, brein

    MLK was gunned down, and yet somehow, 12 years later when I graduated from high school (and carried a sign that read REAGAN for Fuhrer at one of his campaign stops in Birmingham, Mich), I knew who Dr. King was, had heard or read many of his speeches, and wan a bakcer of creating a Federal holiday to celebrate him and his sacrifice.

    Does "learning" stop when you leave school?

    Four Legs Good

    by Spud1 on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 04:03:18 PM PDT

  •  As a ham operator... (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    revenant, deepfish

    I should be able to decode this without a translator. But I can't! Sure am glad they got rid of that morse code requirement. Now if I could just get the translator to work!!!

    Attention Waxman Staffers! Clean up on aisle 1600! huttotex 3/27/07

    by reflectionsv37 on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 04:04:44 PM PDT

  •  Dat's right... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    deepfish
    "My father and I marched with Martin Luther King Jr. through the streets of Detroit."

    in only our magic underwear.

    I'm just a "Save Me Baby Jesus Charismatic Allstar"

    by Wedgie Jackson on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 04:05:46 PM PDT

    •  Obama topped that, hands down (0+ / 0-)

      "My parents met during the March at Selma, then jumped into a time machine, went back four years, and gave birth to me."

      by brassai on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 04:15:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I've found the quote you're referring to: (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        rainmanjr, politicalceci

        This young man named Barack Obama got one of those tickets and came over to this country. He met this woman whose great great-great-great-grandfather had owned slaves; but she had a good idea there was some craziness going on because they looked at each other and they decided that we know that the world as it has been it might not be possible for us to get together and have a child. There was something stirring across the country because of what happened in Selma, Alabama, because some folks are willing to march across a bridge. So they got together and Barack Obama Jr. was born.

        I'll grant you that it's possible that Obama was wrong or lying here, but reading this quote, it doesn't look like he actually said "My parents met in Selma during the march."

        It looks to me like he said something more like...in the past, a white woman and a black man would have been forbidden to marry and might have never met at all, but that, because of the Selma march and other seminal moments in the civil rights movement, things had changed enough within those four years that Barack Sr. and Ann had a chance.

        Lousy Bowlers for Obama

        by paintitblue on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 06:50:37 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Aw shit, the dates are wrong (0+ / 0-)

        in the other direction. Apologies.

        I still think he was talking about general trends, but he had his dates all kinds of fucked up.

        Lousy Bowlers for Obama

        by paintitblue on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 06:52:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Um, let's expand that block quote, shall we? (0+ / 0-)

          So they got together and Barack Obama Jr. was born. So don't tell me I don't have a claim on Selma, Alabama. Don't tell me I’m not coming home to Selma, Alabama. I’m here because somebody marched.

          If you don't know the dates, it's pretty hard not to come away with the sense that he's saying his parents got together at Selma.

          No offense, but you sound like Romney saying that, well, his father marched with King in spirit, and that's what he meant. It's bullshit coming from Romney, and it's bullshit from Obama, too.

          Politicians, you know?

          by brassai on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 08:40:30 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I still don't see it, sorry. (0+ / 0-)

            Call me Romney all you want, but what I'm seeing here--and I can't speak for anyone else--is that he's saying that he is here because the civil rights movement changed attitudes about race. Where he messes up is in placing Selma before his parents got together, which is the wrong timing for it, but the civil rights movement itself had already begun when his parents got together.

            He's here (meaning "born") because somebody marched, and he's also here (meaning "successful") because somebody marched.

            Romney literally said he saw his dad march with King. I don't see Obama saying his parents got together at Selma. Especially when a very quick poke around Wikipedia (yeah, not always reliable, but on boring stuff like this I'm not that worried) reveals that they met in a class, not at a protest. He's claiming Selma as "home" in the sense that, without the civil rights movement, his parents' marriage would have been forbidden, and his own prospects for success would have been severely limited by institutional racism.

            I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

            Lousy Bowlers for Obama

            by paintitblue on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 09:03:16 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  These were prepared remarks (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              kelliknows

              I don't see any tendency on Obama's part towards sloppiness in his speeches. If he's going to be talking about the Selma march in terms of his parents and his conception metaphorically, he has a responsibility to make it clear that he's not being literal. He didn't do that, and the statements invite confusion.

              I find a tendency towards bullshit, fudging, and misleading when Obama talks about himself or the people close to him. One example is the (now-retracted) statement about the Kennedys paying for his father to come to the U.S. back in the 1950's. Another was his telling Keith Olbermann that he never heard Jeremiah Wright in his more controversial moments, then his saying in the Philly speech that he did, then going on "The View" and again saying he hadn't heard them, and that Wright had apologized when Wright never did anything of the sort. There are plenty of other examples as well.

              I realize you probably have a strong emotional investment in the guy's candidacy, and that you want to believe the best about him in all circumstances. However, it's better all around if you acknowledge cheesy behavior when it comes up. I'm 38, and there have been no politicians in my lifetime that I respect and support as much as I do the Clintons, but God knows they have their bullshit moments. If you call Obama on talking crap, it makes you look like you support him with your eyes open, and if enough supporters call him out, he'll be a more disciplined candidate.

              The press will be all over him for this sort of thing if he's the nominee. They want McCain, and they're going easy on Obama now because they want the Clintons gone. If they succeed in knocking Hillary out, Obama will find it's open season on him, and it's best that he not give them an easy target. This Selma business is a really easy target.

              The best question to ask is not what Obama meant, but what's the worst light a statement can be reasonably put in. This GE is shaping up to be as close as the last two, and Obama--if he's the nominee--is going to need to stay on his toes.

              by brassai on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 10:10:27 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I agree with Obama's fudging remarks, but... (0+ / 0-)

                I think he's far and away the superior nominee.  HRC has also lied, fudged, slung racial cards and generally acted poorly.  So, I think we can cancel out the "cheesy behavior."
                McLame will not easily win against Obama.  BO brings way to many people into the process and makes them excited.  His campaign is an extremelly well oiled machine that generates money, and support, by effectively using the web, t.v., and speeches.  McLame is a luddite, compared to BO, and is entirely clueless on issues.  The main one being that Mr. Economics can't create change.  HRC can change policies but not the basic direction of the country, in terms of who we are, and that is what makes her weaker than BO.

                "I am here because of Ashley." - Unknown Obama supporter.

                by rainmanjr on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 06:39:57 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I wasn't comparing Clinton and Obama... (0+ / 0-)

                  ...and all polling indicates the GE is going to be a challenge for either party to win. Neither party candidate is going to be able to afford screw-ups.

                  That aside, can we stop with the juvenile name-calling? It's tiresome and annoying no matter who it's directed against. I don't support Obama, and I'm frankly quite contemptuous of him, but you don't see me calling him the equivalent of what you're calling McCain.

                  by brassai on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 07:59:29 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  "I'm here because somebody marched" (0+ / 0-)

            clearly means, to me, that without that march his parents would not have been together.  Therefore, Selma played a very large role in his conceivement.  Sounds fine, though I'll agree there's some spinning for the occassion in this statement.  My father was in Korea and, because Koreans didn't kill him, he was able to return home and mate with Mom.  So, do I have a claim on Korea?  God, I hope not.

            "I am here because of Ashley." - Unknown Obama supporter.

            by rainmanjr on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 06:30:38 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Great find! (6+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    a gilas girl, deepfish, Luetta, middleagedhousewife, WarrenS, brein

    They tapped about the governor of CA who first took office in January of '67 (ten months before McCain's  capture)?  What they hell would they have been tapping about?  This is bullshit -- if they were tapping about politics and weren't getting any news, they would have been tapping about Goldwater.

    What FDR giveth; GWB taketh away.

    by Marie on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 04:06:04 PM PDT

    •  Sure, they were tapping about Reagan: (0+ / 0-)

      .--- --- .... -. --..-- / .... --- .-- / -.-. .- -. / .. / ... - --- .--. / --. . - - .. -. --. / .. -. ...- --- .-.. ..- -. - .- .-. -.-- / . .-. . -.-. - .. --- -. ... ..--..

      .. ..-. / -.-- --- ..- / - .... .. -. -.- / --- ..-. / ... --- -- . - .... .. -. --. / ..- --. .-.. -.-- / - .... . -.-- .----. .-.. .-.. / --. --- / .- .-- .- -.-- .-.-.-

      Freedom isn't "on the march." Freedom dances.

      by WarrenS on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 05:54:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Everyone here (0+ / 0-)

    loves MLK.

    Who here wants to find out who killed him and why?

    eom

    by jgtidd on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 04:10:46 PM PDT

  •  Lets put this in the contex of his life (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    its simple IF you ignore the complexity, deepfish, paintitblue, Dragon5616

    its important we look at this in the context of McCain's other actions.

    1. "I hate all the gooks"
    1. Him saying he wouldn't vote for someone of a different religion.
    1. This.
    1. His previous support for the confederate flag.

    by omachoomar on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 04:12:24 PM PDT

  •  John McCain: (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    its simple IF you ignore the complexity, darkrose, deepfish, paintitblue

    Wrong on race.

    Wrong on the war.

    Wrong on the economy.

    Wrong on foreign policy.

    Wrong on health care.

    Wrong on education.

    Wrong on justice.

    Wrong on poverty.

    Wrong on the constitution.

    John McCain:  Wrong.

    "It's no wonder more people call themselves Democrats; it's easy to identify with a party that identifies with you." --srmjjg

    by Dragon5616 on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 04:12:47 PM PDT

  •  Any other Hams besides me and Reflections (0+ / 0-)

    who are flipped out at seeing MC on the freakin' front page?

    I'll bet there's a few of us. God, I love this place.

    by revenant on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 04:13:07 PM PDT

  •  LOL Spittake (0+ / 0-)

    First Laugh out Loud, clean the keyboard and wipe the screen moment of 2008!

    God Bless ya Kagro! My late little bro was a "communicator" for the Canadian Armed Forces (had his own NSA card and clearance and everything!). Seeing that morse brought back memories.

    Again, thank you.

    DFooK

    "Impeach the Cheerleader, save the world!"

    by deepfish on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 04:13:09 PM PDT

  •  Take off the blinders, please (0+ / 0-)

    John McCain did the right thing today, and unless you're predisposed to dismiss him at every turn, one has to admit that he deserves a lot of credit for it. And people are going to give it to him.

    by brassai on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 04:18:09 PM PDT

    •  Wait... (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      middleagedhousewife, politicalceci

      ...what was the right thing that he did today? Who's giving him credit for this thing? I'm not trying to get sassy with you - honestly curious what you're referring to.

      A dreamer is one who can only find his way by moonlight, and his punishment is that he sees the dawn before the rest of the world. Oscar Wilde

      by AimlessDriver on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 04:27:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  He admitted he was wrong (0+ / 0-)

        He admitted his mistake in opposing the national King holiday. He faced the boos of a hostile crowd, and effectively said that if they were booing him for his vote twenty-odd years ago, they were right. He demonstrated that people can grow.

        He also did infinitely more to promote the healing of racial division than anything in Obama's vaunted self-serving "A More Perfect Union" speech last month.

        In some ways, this was a "Nixon goes to China" moment for John McCain, and he showed more courage today than Obama's shown in his entire life.

        by brassai on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 04:40:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  That was a photo-op, not an apology (3+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          gmhowell, rainmanjr, politicalceci

          At least not a sincere one.

          First of all, if it really came from his heart, he wouldn't have needed the paper. Even with the paper, he stumbled. Someone who wants to be POTUS and heal/unite us should have spoken from the heart.

          He did apologize, but it was a "safe" apology, done only because he's now running for President. The fact he wasn't booed off the stage and some people forgave him for his past actions shows the power of MLK still works. I hope he got that message.

          McCain is only sincere about military matters and cutting social services. To me, this was only a calculated swing-vote maneuver.

          Straight Talk Express pulled into the station about 25 years too late today.

          There has never been a protracted war from which a country has benefited. The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. - Sun Tzu

          by OHeyeO on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 05:33:56 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You are absolutely right, OHeyeO. (0+ / 0-)

            How can anyone possibly compare Obama's race speech with McLame's political-expediant attempt to win black votes?  And, then, state that McLame's pandering is an historic moment and did more to promote racial healing than Obama, even though he was roundly booed while Obama's coverage was glowing, is just plain crazed.
            Brassai has shown either an extreme partisanship against Obama.  Saying McCain is a better candidate is not only wrong, but not something a real Dem. would do.  This includes Hillary.

            "I am here because of Ashley." - Unknown Obama supporter.

            by rainmanjr on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 06:48:35 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Um, no... (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      rainmanjr, politicalceci, paintitblue

      When he was just a Senator from AZ, he was perfectly happy to block MLK legislation.  It did not affect his election prospects in that state one iota.  In fact, it may have actually helped him.  But when his aspirations turned to the national scene, he suddenly believed that MLK was this great American hero.  He is being a political opportunist.  Period.

      'Part of what makes America so beautiful is that there is no such thing as someone who looks like an American' - Barack Obama

      by RichM on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 04:37:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You're just foolish. (0+ / 0-)

      He was booed by nearly the entire crowd.  He had a black man holding his umbrella.  McLame is clueless and nearly as stupid as Shrub.  

      "I am here because of Ashley." - Unknown Obama supporter.

      by rainmanjr on Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 06:42:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  MLK anti VN war speech (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    OneCharmingBastard

    Dean DNC ka-ching! button

    by x on Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 04:19:41 PM PDT